going out to the bag i will shop for the $0.20 it's going to cost you 50 bucks or next time $100 you can figure out it isn't about dispatching a lot of people to chase down $0.20 there could have been 50 people in line and the clerk may not not been able to look at this i don't want to get into the argument of the $0.20 today but clearly this is going to result in a lot of problems. we're going to find out someone to roll this and figure out this so your life is not miserable with you shouldn't be hooifg

people to do that >> commissioner ortiz-cartagena. i have two questions that commissioner dwight spoke about you said eliminated business from a number of locations inspected or tested you mean eliminate because they don't exist or meet the po s >> in other words, they sent in an application and listed the p association s and we didn't find a po s you don't have to pay us any money you don't qualify for the program. >> there were businesses that were xevend the application process. >> right so we told them. >> you don't need to pay register fees. >> okay. my second questions any co- commissioner spoke packly is there any correlation

to the percentage or what the number of over charges you have to have one hundred and 77 fiscal year jr. 2013-2014 but what does that equate to as cash. >> you median money wise. >> yeah. one hundred and 77 times $0.20 and the closest i can help you there is only the october 24th letter where s it talks about the value of the retail sales effected if you can go to the second page of that letter it talks about the potential savings is $3.57 million.

and in sorry in 2009 division conducted another survey and i probably should have sent you this one but i can read it to you but it's like so much information >> just a quick number we don't - just a quick estimate. >> an aggregate over charge i'm reading the certain result that 210 thousand plus items were purchased 3 percent were over charged and it was 0.4 percentage of the 9 hundred plus

stores effected 19 had no over charges and based on only the correct prices 98 stores had over charges of less than 2 percent and 2324 stores are over charged of two to four percent and 45 stores had over charges of 4 percent of the total. this survey the buyers were charged one hundred and 43 dollars less than the correct total when over charges and under charges were included. and then it goes further on to say table results the manuel scanned bar codes counties with ordinances should not during the survey 25.47 percent of the

shopped locations were recorded to be using non-awkward direct price entries. the non awkward locations were somewhat below the locations of using the automatic. the survey determined both counties with price version po s programs had an error rate of less than those who don't have the po s programs i'll send that to you for your documentation it's part of my presentation >> commissioner. >> thank you for your presentation i don't want to go over the technical difficulties

it is - commissioner white presented. i want to go over the men of the system in place and what i have presented, you know, you've present a letter talking about $3.5 million of potential savings in this and as a result of that letter school district to this letter the register plan came about and i've looked at our numbers and implementation costs that you have, you know, cost you've presented to us. and in those - in our expenditures and revenues you talked about the revenues of what you got in registration

fees but importing and exporting nothing recommended to the savings that the consumers have benefited from in tcity and county so maybe you have that study because of your efforts in 4 years you've kind of saved the consumer and the city and county of san francisco and the expenditures and efforts have brought down from 2 hundred and 24 thousand businesses to 2 thousand businesses this is a big undertaking i'm wondering from the business point of view each of them have a point of sales also the fact that the

state didn't require the registration percent it talked about the enforcement by not registration the proof is one county doesn't have a registration system. where's the benefit in all those four years you've been implementing this ordinance how much do you think the consumer weighing also the burden your placing on biz the consumer benefits in dollars and sents cents i'm curious to find out if the is $2.5 million figure is something we should rely on to justify the burdens on the small business. i'm curious to hear our app you live it >> commissioner that is really difficult i don't have that information or a model how to

base it. i could try to photo how it benefits the city and county of san francisco i'm not sure i could do it tomorrow or next month but the implementation was certainly the most difficult here in the city in the first two years. i'm sure you're aware of the data was not there that provided did information that we could lessen our costs to be able to go out and get this program implemented the data was not there. we pretty much manuel deleted those businesses from the tax collectors to answer your

question i don't have any idea how to get that information >> my final comment i find important is education. we put a lot of emphasis on licensing and i don't have how much emphasis on the education in educating the businesses for the reason to bring down the implementation of the >> law. i'm presenting this to you should you not put-down more this was on education and relieve the businesses that rely from the burden of licensing and what is our opinion about that and what has our vice president done educating the small business in the city and county of san francisco.

i'm so glad you asked that question i hadn't thought about it to bring it up to you. but any staff has directed each and every one from the day i arrived in 2008 that when we go out it's not with the philosophy that wear an enforcement officer i've go on gone to staff meeting i've explained you'll go out and give them a card and explain who you are you'll explain why you're there, what you're going to do, and how you're going to help them achieve compliance if there's going it be an issue. threat each consumer like that and that is what my staff don't

see to educate every single day another every single location that we go to and every single call we've receive on the phone. every time we receive a cail to cat and explain and to try to help them understand what it say they have to comply with the registration or law or if it's not something we do we get a lot of calls that are we direct to the correct person if you don't know who it is you'll call and find the right person. and that's what my staff is trained to do >> thank you. that's the only way to educate

them unless we go on citywide tv with measures and programming. >> commissioner dwight >> i'm assuming your group does other things related to public health; is that correct. >> we're strictly with weighs and measures. >> and as the weights and measures group you have other staff besides. >> yes. >> so my question i guess what is you're feeling about this particular thing that you've been asked to do is this something you embrace and glad to see this task put on your plate or rather not have to be proactively enforce the way your directed to do.

>> i believe the data is correct and benefit to the businesses it under charges. >> yeah. >> i accept the responsibility for implementing the program. >> uh-huh. >> i believe if it's going to be a benefit i'll do it and i accept that i have other device and gas petroleums and scales and weigh masters and have the wealthy masters it treat all the grod gold buyers and balance the activity but because this proposal in 2010 was adapt and you had to implement the program. >> right. >> i directed resources to it. >> i'm assuming the resources you have to direct are the

distraction from the other activities that you have to do this is. >> - >> the less energy you spend on wealthy and goals for example, this is additional stuff and you're under staffed; is that correct. >> currently there is only so many hours. >> so for some reason this disappeared as a responsibility that will be fine you could allocate additional resources to the things that are currently on your - >> (laughter). >> that's not going on our document. >> i'm not asking you to tell me to get rid of this (laughter). >> no, i'm not in disagreement with you. >> i have to go do this. >> commissioner riley. >> i have a question on the

$3.7 million saving for the consumer on the second page of the letter you use the estimate name sales and rate to come up with the $3.75 million how is that going to benefit the consumer are you required the stores that in violation of over charge to refund the money to the consumer or would do we do with the $3.75 million. >> it's a broad figure of benefit to the consumer not necessarily to the individuals. >> that's to be avoided. if we had perfect enforcement that is the amount of money that is saved for the consumers this

is not a measure to be rebaited just trying to put a number at what is the consumer downsize here. this is not a net of under charges this is a approximate of over charges >> the under charges are there. >> oh, they are. >> the under charges and you get a map. >> you have to look at this to the grow number of transactions and the number of dollars spent in the city and county of san francisco this is not only san francisco consumers but all consumers there's million dollars of out of town tourt for one thing. this is a very small number 3 about the $75 million is a lot of money if you are buying a condominium but not a lot in the transaction of the consumer

dollars in the city and county of san francisco >> if you're using this number as a benefit you're not giving the money back to the consumer this is something we say if we do this and nobody is in violation then this is the net result but actually, the $3.75 million we're not asking the store to reimburse the commentator their nonexistent. >> well, maybe if i in relationship to your question. and this is probably not a popular subject but if the highway patrol doesn't have a speed limit of 55 or 65 miles

per hour and didn't enforce the speed limit how many more car crashes would we have if they're not enforcing the stop sign or other traffic laws so what's the net benefit there to the community to the population as a whole? and that's preempt active. the highway patrol is ticketing hoping people running stop signs or drunk drivers so if you put it in that kind of sense then the net benefit to the community in the broad sense - >> i think it's more akin to putting a camera at every intersection we have a law and can go and enforce the law we're putting a camera at every intersection and a rad oar dethe course. >> that is only for people that

violates the law we don't go around and ticket everybody so the same thing that we put on all the stores including not the ones in violation i think the resources - >> i don't think the highway patrol catches everybody but just the presence has a motorist respect the speed limit. >> well. >> i think we agree to disagree it's not the use of resources if we go out and check everybody. >> okay. commissioner. >> i want to go back to the expenditures what you called revenues in my opinion, of course, you're talking on behalf

of the small businesses the revenues and expertise so navigate you're spending public money for a 3 hundred and 98 thousand and our business money for the other. i see it as a if you added it comes up to 7 - i mean, i don't want to go to the nitty-gritty of adding up numbers but i want to share my prospective on this revenue issue you have to understand that's that an expertise asking all businesses to spend that money so it comes up to a higher amount it's a double negative for me. as to seeing i come back and support any co- commissioners on the issue of the fact there's a state law a law in place the yee question is how are we spending the money to get compliance.

so we not instead of imposing fees and double fees educate and punish those who are the hold outs who follow the law or punish everybody and spend thousands of dollars not getting the results that the revenue after that, you related to us respectfully submitted is an expertise through public businesses that's quite a bit of public money added on the licenses that are due? city and county but i thank you for your prospective >> commissioner white. >> i've already said my preferences. >> any other commissioner comments. >> let's take public comment

any public comment on that item on item 5? seeing none, public comment is closed >> any other commissioner comments. >> commissioner president adams just for the sake of the record for the meeting i would appreciate if we could get a specific definition of the po s and the types of systems you regulate. >> okay. it all falls into the definition of the state law and i can read it verbatim from the - the court: well, i guess perhaps more specific to my question not the definition as stated? law but what are the types of systems when i looked at what a po s system is astronomically when a business registration a po s system and you determine it doesn't quality so where's the distinction

what's the systems yourself looking at that do qualify and the systems you see that don't qualify. >> it's all the electronically stored information systems that have a server they use a p l or a scanner or the u pc so when we implement the program because of resources and the number of persons i have to do this i eliminated bars and restaurants. we don't have enough staff resources to go to every bar and every restaurant. they've got price codes you go to the mid screen in the back and hit the screen and up comes a price but realistically when

you go to a bar and sit down and you order your beer you have a beer memo or a drink memo that says $6 on that. the person the bartender delivers to you or the wait our delivers our meal and check you see it up front comeback neighborhood of the year bra you conduct the transaction so, i say to the staff this is not going to work with us here because the transaction is not done you have a receipt before you do the transaction because you see what the price is you compare it and write our tip on it you do the credit card so i eliminated those. but the scanners those businesses that have

registration where they hit a p l u and they've got an tasered price to lazy lake starbucks to my building in anderson's i didn't think they have qualified i saw they have standardized prices for your orange juices and other things so i took those off principally in san francisco its scanners. those businesses where they move merchandise across quickly and you scan you zip our credit card and then you walked out and say oh, great oh, no, i've got to backing go back to customer service those are the businesses we're regulating >> commissioner white. >> this is an interesting conversation it brings the

further complications of more than a day flash sales and time of day happy hour vs. regular drinks you've carved out areas that are obviously going to be difficult to enforce. and i think, in fact, you know, because they were easy to segregate it pertains to the overly difficulty of this in general. so i just want to be clear i'm trying to make your life easier not complicated i'm not you're going with you your mark farrell reacting to legislation that's been passed and to your point you are charged with diet fully carrying out the laws in the city of san francisco we need to go to the root that's the

legislation is wrongheaded not how your executing it you've made steps to simplify this problem so we will deal with how we could move forward with the new business but suffice it to say usual presentation really goes to showing you how difficult this is and how expensive it is potentially to really enforce the way you're being directed to enforce it so in that regard it's educational for all of us. i don't median to be inside i find it is a classic case no one gets the in2i7b9d consequences of something to be enforced in the way you'll have to do it to the letter of the legislation

thangsz firing time >> it was quite an achievement by bringing that number from a high 2 hundred and 24 thousand businesses down to 2 thousand that's an achievement we thank you for that you've done the work for two staff members. >> it was more than two staff members (laughter) it was a lot of staff. >> i agree. >> thank you very much. you're welcome. you're welcome >> i think there's a tip to director 6, 7 and 8 theirs part of number 6. >> thank you. so, yes it is well, it's item 6 but on the agenda it includes 7 and 8. so discussion to make recommendations to the board of supervisors on board of

supervisors file planning code amending the alcohol district this is african-american the planning code to amend the third street restrictive use for the beefrn for the small beer licenses and so commissioners we don't have a presentation and the reason we don't have a presentation is actually in january you heard a previous amendment and made a previous recommendation you said type 1 but i consider falling within the perimeter to include beer manufacturing so it's an opportunity for the commission just to reaffirm this previous decision >> i have to say that third street corridor is going